Ever since Joy-Anna Duggar and Austin Forsyth announced that they’re expecting their first child, fans have speculated about their baby’s conception date. Anyone who knows even the vaguest information about the Duggar family knows that giving full-body hugs before marriage is considered taboo let alone having sex before marriage. So, the fact that some of the 20-year-old star’s fans are speculating that the baby was conceived before Joy and Austin tied the knot is pretty scandalous (to say the least).

A new reddit thread shows fans using actual math to calculate the alleged date of conception from “clues” Joy included in her initial announcement post on Instagram. User awkward_thunder wrote, “Joy posted her announcement on Aug 30th, she had been married about 12 weeks. The announcement post listed babies developments including fingerprints and brain waves. Including this info may have been an oversight, not realizing it was a giveaway. A fetus doesn’t develop those things until around 25/26 weeks gestation, so let’s say she’s a lying liar who lies (not that she should have to ffs!) if on Aug 30th she was 25 weeks pregnant, when did she conceive and when would she be due?”

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Austin and I are SO thankful to announce that we are parents!! Even before we were married we prayed that God would give us children and we are so blessed that he has given us this baby! Jesus is the giver of Life! The baby has arms, legs, fingers, and toes. It has a beating heart and brain waves. The baby responds to touch and is already right- or left-handed. The baby has its own unique fingerprints, which are different from anyone else's. All organ systems are in place! Psalm 139:13-16 "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." This passage indicates that God Himself formed our physical features and that He did so with a wonderful plan for our lives. God knew us in the womb. #babyforsyth #alreadyinlovewithmybaby #blessedbeyondmeasure #Jesusanswersprayers

A post shared by Austin & Joy Forsyth (@austinandjoyforsyth) on

Okay, putting aside the fact that using these facts from the star to calculate how far along she is in her pregnancy is a tad (okay more than a tad) obsessive, we were curious to see what the redditors came up with.

User goldenw suggests that Joy’s mention of her baby’s development might not be based on actual medical facts. “My thoughts on the timeline issues are that she’s a 19 year old kid thrust into marriage, sex and parenthood with probably zero FACTUAL understanding of 1) the male and female reproductive systems and 2) the stages of pregnancy and fetal development, especially since fundamentalists have unhinged views on abortion. Half the time, right wing pro lifers think a whole mini fully formed baby is created immediately at conception. So I bet she has a very specific app, or book, or whatever that is telling her nonsense and she’s going with it.”

We agree that a young woman’s Instagram post about her baby’s development isn’t exactly enough to prove that she conceived her child before she was married. And honestly, if she did we doubt she’d ever make the mistake of dropping a hint about it on Instagram for fear of the repercussions from her family and fans. Right now the estimated date of her baby’s arrival is in February 2018!

If she’s using apps to give her information then there’s a good chance the information could be off. “I used three apps during my pregnancy and they all said different things,” user chall2016 added. So, can we please just let Joy (and her baby) live?!